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We've been chasing lights down all over down that way.

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What do they look like?

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I don't know.

4
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We've got a report.

5
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I don't know.

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I don't know.

7
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I don't know.

8
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I don't know.

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I don't know.

10
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I don't know.

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I don't know.

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I don't know.

13
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We've got a report of something going through the air with lights on it horizontally.

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Three to four lights.

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Going at a high rate of speed up and down and all over the sky.

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What did I see that night?

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What did I see going 72,000 miles per hour at least?

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This is tough for a scientist to admit and so I'm just going to have to say the way they acted even though intelligent they didn't act human.

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When I was a kid people made fun of me.

20
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They used to say it could only happen to Jack.

21
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I was like the epitome of coincidences and strange ones.

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I grew up in Muskegon which is in West Michigan and it's a beautiful area.

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You got the four seasons.

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So this was my childhood home right here.

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I can remember standing right out front being three and four years old being very curious about the world.

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Even as far back as I can remember I was very interested in astronomy and science and then of course weather too.

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I started learning how to read weather maps at about five, six years old.

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My parents lived on Lake Michigan.

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I could see the storms rolling across Lake Michigan.

30
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So I learned that I wanted to be a meteorologist ever since I was six years old.

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On March 8th, 1994 I was 29 going on 30.

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I had been at the Muskegon National Weather Service for three years at that point.

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That was the 4 p.m. to 12 a.m. shift and I was alone on duty for the night which is not unusual.

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Temperatures were around 20 degrees.

35
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It was a light wind and we had very good visibility probably easily 80 miles.

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I wasn't expecting that there was going to be anything going on that night because there was nothing going on weather-wise.

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It was a very, very clear cold night.

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That night it was very clear.

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I was in the kitchen talking to my friend Edna and we had a corded phone at the time.

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I liked to pace when I'm on the phone.

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My husband was in the basement watching TV downstairs on the couch.

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It was about nine o'clock at night.

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I walked to my kitchen window.

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That's when I saw the lights and the glow, the light that was outside was so bright.

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I thought it was a huge full moon.

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I did a double take.

47
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No, I saw four lights.

48
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That can't be a full moon.

49
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So I said, Edna, I think there's UFO in my backyard.

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The lights were in a straight line.

51
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They were stationary.

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They were just above our tree line in our pasture.

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The one to the far left moved slowly across the tree line.

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Then slowly came back into formation again.

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And the other one to the far right would be to the west.

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We're starting to slowly move.

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And it was gone.

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It was just gone in a flash.

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So now I'm left with three.

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I never saw a ship or ships.

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The lights were so bright I could never see beyond them.

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I watched them totally for about a half hour.

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I wish I had a camera back then.

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We didn't have cell phones that could take a picture.

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What surprised me most was there was no sound from the UFO.

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My horse was out in the field and she was grazing and knotting off.

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She didn't even know they're above her head.

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Not a sound.

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That's the thing that stands out the most to me.

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Dead silent.

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In 1994, I was married.

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My daughter was 10 and my son was 14.

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Then my husband Darrell and I had retired to bed.

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And the kids were in the living room.

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Joey started screaming.

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You gotta see this.

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Come in here. You gotta see this.

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Our whole living room was like a spotlight.

79
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It was so bright.

80
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I'm on one.

81
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We were just wondering, have you heard anything about these lights

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that are flickering up here?

83
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It's like a group.

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It looks like a string of crispy bites was way up in the sky.

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And we wondered if you had heard anything about it.

86
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Well, you might have heard from me.

87
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It's different. I've never seen anything like it.

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I don't know. It's strange.

89
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But it's right out east-south east. It's way up.

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You can hear my kids screaming in the background on the 911 tape.

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So my husband Darrell said, let's go outside.

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And this thing is roughly 300 feet.

93
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It was right across the street.

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And it wasn't doing anything but going as slow as it possibly could.

95
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It was not like a plane. It was not like a blimp.

96
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It was not like anything I've ever seen.

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It was, I said, a chrome material.

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It was a cylinder shape.

99
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And they were going around in a circle, saw no windows,

100
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anything like that, and it had lights coming out of the bottom.

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It's just like a circle of a lot of different lights flickering.

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I said to Darrell, what is that?

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And he said, Holly, it's a UFO.

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We stood out there for about, I want to say, 15, 20 minutes

105
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before Officer Veldhaus got there.

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I was in my patrol vehicle when I received a 911 call

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to respond to the residents of Holly Graves and her family.

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My thought on UFOs was skeptical.

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I was trying to think of any kind of explainable situation

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I was going on, whether it was somebody's shining lights

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or maybe something was on fire.

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I was met outside by Holly Graves and her husband.

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I saw two lights and they were both moving in a southwest direction

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and they were consistent with the flight,

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maybe of an aircraft of some sort.

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They were that high in the sky.

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The lights went from white to green

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and they were fairly close together.

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As I watched them, the one light caught my attention

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and it moved from the other light in a quick manner

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and kept going southwest.

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That was noticeable to me, different than any normal aircraft

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that I've seen.

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Officer Veldhaus and my husband stood in the front yard

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for another 10 minutes or so

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and then Officer Veldhaus left.

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At that point, I heard Darryl scream.

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He said it just, bam, broke up into five before it disappeared.

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As I was trying to follow the lights,

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we were getting more calls through

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Ottawa County Central Dispatch.

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I'm on one.

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There's probably four or five lights

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and they were all flashing right in the road from the top

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all the way down to the bottom.

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It took off real fast.

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There were four lights and they were breaking back and forth

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and there's no way, I mean, the plane's not that wide.

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And then it started, and it went down to three lights

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and it started spinning around.

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Like, it was a circular motion.

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So it's going to go up and down

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and then it went to two lights into the same thing

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and that was one and it just spinned in a circle.

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They were just kind of hanging there.

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They came up as a group and then they kind of split them.

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I contacted the Ottawa County Central Dispatcher

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to try and locate a radar service

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to determine what it was that people were reporting.

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And he, in turn, contacted Muskegon Weather Service.

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Around 10 p.m. that night,

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I got a phone call from the Ottawa County 911 Dispatch.

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You get anything weird down in the Southern Ottawa County area?

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And the reason I asked is we're getting a whole bunch of calls

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with some strange lights in the Southern Ottawa Northern Allagan County

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right here in Holland City area.

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Strange light?

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Yeah.

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We had about 60 UFO calls.

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Oh, okay.

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And said, you're like, oh, come on,

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there's got to be something more to this.

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Yeah.

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When he said something about UFOs

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or being seen across the skies,

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I thought, oh boy, you know,

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a lot of people are drinking out tonight.

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But I was not going to say just blow them off

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and say, no, I can't see something like that.

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I was going to take a look.

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I was actually interested in myself.

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As a radar operator, we had to learn

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not just learning how to look at atmospheric phenomena on the radar,

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but how the radar actually works,

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what can actually fool the radar.

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So we're rigorously trained because we're putting out

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severe weather warnings and tornado warnings

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based on what we see with the radar.

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I'm looking at it in the vertical now,

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and there's a large return down there.

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It's up about maybe a mile disappear,

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but it was up about 6,000 feet.

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It could have been in plane.

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But it was pretty big.

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Wait a minute.

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And I assumed it was an aircraft at about 6,000 feet,

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which was not unusual.

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It was moving at around 100 miles an hour,

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which again was not unusual.

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Now, to find an aircraft in the dark like this

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would be like being in the basement

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and you have a flashlight and you're looking for that fly

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that's flying around,

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and you only have that focused beam.

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And once you might be able to catch it,

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you might be able to follow it,

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but a lot of times you could lose it.

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Oh, it moved.

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There's something big down there.

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Wait a minute. That's really strange.

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Yeah, right down here south-havings.

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It's moving towards the west-south-west.

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It looks like a big blob.

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Yeah, that's the way it was explained to us.

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This is weird.

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It looks like it's steady right now.

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For a brief moment of about 15 seconds,

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it just stopped and hovered,

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which is highly unusual.

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So right away I knew something was not right.

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Either it was at that point I thought,

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okay, it could be a blimp, a balloon, or something like that.

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But to be flying at night in the dead of winter

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was highly unusual too.

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It's gone up.

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I'm getting it now at about 12,000 feet.

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Oh.

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You know, after that, it seemed like everything just went crazy.

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Oh, my God. What is that?

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They were going together and coming apart.

221
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Yeah, well, it's...

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There's three.

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They're separated by about...

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It's like about 5,000 feet in height.

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They're very strong returns.

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They're spiking, so it's...

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They're something pretty solid.

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Not precipitation or anything, especially up at that height.

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In all aspects, the objects looked like an aircraft.

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It just did not act like an aircraft.

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We know it was solid.

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It was smooth.

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It seemed extremely reflective, very high-polished metal.

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We can detect that by the amount of energy coming back in the echo.

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The huge returns. I've never seen anything like this.

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Not even when I'm doing storms. These aren't storms.

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They're just popping up all over the place.

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The northernmost one would jump 20 miles hover.

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The other two would jump 20 miles

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and then make that triangular formation again,

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and that would hover there for a few seconds.

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Think of anything in nature that would play follow the leader like that.

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It was almost as if it wanted to be seen.

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I was spooked. I was creeped out.

245
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I was nervous. I was shaking.

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These are all up around about between 7 and 12,000 feet.

247
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This is strange.

248
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They look like they're all moving toward the south, towards Chicago.

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They're about over the center of Lake Michigan, three of them in a triangle,

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just off the coast of Bury County.

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Once it got to that one area in southern Lake Michigan,

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it stopped at Hubbard. It stayed there for a while.

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I watched them for two, three hours,

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and they were met up by dozens and dozens of other objects I could see.

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They were doing incredible feats, like going from lower, say, like at 4,000 or 5,000 feet

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to going as high as 55,000 feet within a matter of seconds,

257
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,000
which none of our military aircraft can do at all.

258
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:18,000
At one point, I saw it move 20 miles out over Lake Michigan in less than a second,

259
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,000
so it's moving at 72,000 miles an hour.

260
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:26,000
At that speed, you can fly from New York to LA in about two minutes,

261
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:31,000
and there's just no technology I know of that can go that fast.

262
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:38,000
I know it wasn't swamp gas because the weather radar would actually not be able to see swamp gas.

263
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:43,000
I knew that they were not a super-refraction of the radar beam

264
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:49,000
or a bounce back of the radar back down to the Earth because of their movements and their speeds,

265
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:56,000
but also because by raising the radar antenna to the many degrees that I did up,

266
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:01,000
that eliminates all super-refraction possibilities.

267
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:08,000
Later on, I found out that that was the only clear area of no ice.

268
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:14,000
It was absolutely the northernmost point that you get without going into solid sheets of ice.

269
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,000
They were out over open water.

270
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:26,000
It was a rendezvous point for other objects from coming in from other directions.

271
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:31,000
All right, well, if we get any more, we'll let you know also.

272
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,000
Okay, let me...

273
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,000
Yeah, please do.

274
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,000
Thank you.

275
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,000
Bye-bye.

276
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,000
Once I got off the phone with 911 dispatcher,

277
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:45,000
I called my wife and told her all about what I had seen,

278
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:52,000
and I said, can you go out and take a look to the southern sky and see if you see anything?

279
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,000
It was late at night. It was the dead of winter.

280
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,000
She actually was too afraid to go out.

281
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,000
She said, yes, she was great.

282
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,000
I said, I'm not going out there by myself.

283
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,000
I did stay over and watch it a little bit more,

284
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:13,000
and one by one, they would disappear until they all just kind of faded away.

285
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:21,000
The next shift that came in after me, he didn't really get excited like I was.

286
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,000
Really didn't know what to think of it because he hadn't seen the whole thing.

287
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,000
Driving home that night, everything was going through my mind,

288
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,000
and I couldn't believe what I had seen.

289
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:43,000
My whole idea as a scientist of what's out there,

290
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,000
it was like just a huge change in the way I had to think

291
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,000
that there's more out there than we all know.

292
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,000
I was like, oh, I'm going to be there.

293
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,000
Probably around eight in the morning, we started getting direct calls,

294
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,000
which were coming into me,

295
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:10,000
and these are citizens who saw something strange and wanted to report it.

296
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:18,000
So I got the idea of calling the dispatch operator in Ottawa County, 9-1-1,

297
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:23,000
and saying, how long would it take to get a copy of these calls?

298
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,000
And he said, I'll have it for you in an hour.

299
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:33,000
So I picked it up, and this is back in 1994.

300
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:40,000
Popped it into the cassette device, and it knocks your socks off.

301
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,000
9-1-1.

302
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,000
This is a non-emergency, so feel free to cut me off if something comes in.

303
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,000
And I feel kind of silly calling, but is there any Air Force airplanes

304
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,000
or helicopters flying around in Algin or Ottawa County tonight?

305
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,000
I don't know if you guys do anything on UFOs at all.

306
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,000
It's not a really emergency. We just called up all the UFOs.

307
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,000
They're out there, making airplanes.

308
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:13,000
These people saw something that either frightened or amazed them.

309
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:18,000
You can hear the sincerity in their voices. You can hear the amazement.

310
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,000
I think that's very compelling.

311
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:28,000
But also, there was a 9-1-1 dispatch recording with a National Weather Service radar operator.

312
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:34,000
He alone and the dispatcher set this apart from so much other UFO stuff that I've seen.

313
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:40,000
I listened to five or ten minutes of it, and I called the news desk and said,

314
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:47,000
We got a major story. I got back to the newsroom, batted out a story, and got it on the wire.

315
00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:02,000
When the event happened on March 8th, I had no idea it was recorded.

316
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:09,000
The tape was immediately given to my boss and to my boss's boss.

317
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,000
And that's when just everything broke loose.

318
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:31,000
Residents in places like Grand Haven, Holland and other Lakeshore towns reported seeing the strange phenomenon in the night sky.

319
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,000
This was definitely brighter than anything I've ever seen before.

320
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,000
Flash in green lights, and once in a while you'd see like a red.

321
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,000
About ten seconds at just which.

322
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:46,000
Were they watching us? Were they taking samples of the atmosphere? You know, what were they doing?

323
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:56,000
The March 8th, 1994 sighting of UFOs in southwestern Michigan is really one of the big cases historically,

324
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,000
not just for Michigan, but for UFOs, period.

325
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:07,000
Meet the Mutual UFO Network, or MUFON, International Investigators of Strange Sights in the Skies.

326
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,000
They're trying to find just what's haunting the Great Lakes State.

327
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:17,000
MUFON is the world's largest civilian UFO research organization.

328
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:23,000
We've been around for over 50 years, and we have over 4,000 members in over 40 countries.

329
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,000
We take UFO reports that people send in to us.

330
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:34,000
We can identify usually between 80 to 95% of what comes in to us every year.

331
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,000
And the ones that we can identify are the interesting ones that keep us going.

332
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:46,000
Michigan is one of those states where we just happen to have more UFO sightings reported to us than many of the other states.

333
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,000
We're always in the top ten.

334
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:57,000
But this UFO event in March of 1994, we're talking over 300 witnesses to UFOs in a single night.

335
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:03,000
This was not just on the west side of the state. Michigan's got 82 counties,

336
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:08,000
and 42 counties had UFO sightings that night of March 8th.

337
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,000
MUFON officials say this is the hottest UFO case in the country right now,

338
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:18,000
not only because of the mass sightings, but the fact that these objects have actually been tracked on radar.

339
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,000
You can't see nothing happen that night. It's scientific.

340
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:28,000
Here is an instrument recording something that is undeniable.

341
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:37,000
I learned about the sighting when a friend from Flint, Michigan, called me.

342
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:45,000
I called the headquarters of MUFON and I was put in charge of investigating this case.

343
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,000
I got in the car as quickly as I could driving to Holland.

344
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:57,000
I interviewed 20 or 30 people who were direct witnesses.

345
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:06,000
They put us all in separate rooms and had us all draw pictures and write our story.

346
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,000
How did you know it was something unusual?

347
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:15,000
I saw the bottom. It was metal. It had lights on it.

348
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:23,000
I've had nationwide stories before, but nothing like this. This went worldwide. The reaction was immediate.

349
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:29,000
For two weeks now, the big question in much of Western Michigan has been, oh my God, what is this?

350
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:36,000
After the event, I was contacted by dozens of people from throughout the state.

351
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:46,000
I had calls, I remember, from two pilots, both from major airlines who were coming in over to O'Hare, over Lake Michigan.

352
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:57,000
Both of them separately verified this very bright, cylindrical object, going in front of them across Lake Michigan,

353
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,000
and then just disappearing at a phenomenal rate of speed.

354
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:12,000
Both of them did not want their names used, did not want their carriers used, because there was so much prejudice, perhaps.

355
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:21,000
I think there had been a stigma attached to people who claimed to have seen UFOs, because it may suggest that they're mentally ill.

356
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,000
You're silly, you're drunk, you're crazy.

357
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:41,000
Soon after the event occurred, I walked into the weather office, and the guys had taken paper plates stacked and stapled like flying saucers,

358
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:46,000
and they put about 50 of them hanging from the ceiling on strings.

359
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,000
Just put my hands on my face and thought, oh no.

360
00:28:53,000 --> 00:29:00,000
When it came to this event, I knew people might not believe me, and what I had seen might sound crazy.

361
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:10,000
I did not want to be thought of as somebody, especially as a scientist, as somebody with a mental illness.

362
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:23,000
The National Weather Service, they did not want to be known as the UFO Reporting Center, so they tried to make it go away in a hurry.

363
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,000
Meteorologists with the National Weather Service set a temperature inversion.

364
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:38,000
A layer of warm air a few thousand feet above the Earth's surface could have been the culprit for the strange returns on radar, something called ground clutter.

365
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:44,000
At this point, I was told not to talk or give interviews to anybody.

366
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:50,000
I was very anxious, because I worked my entire life for that job.

367
00:29:51,000 --> 00:30:06,000
If I had disobeyed an order and talked to the press about it, I have no doubt in my mind that they would have tried to fire me or actually ruin the future in my career.

368
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:13,000
My supervisor, Leo, had to toe the line.

369
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:23,000
And in fact, when I talked to him later about what this was doing to my career, Leo was the one that said, Jack, you got to get out of Michigan.

370
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:34,000
I knew I had to hurry up and get a job to wherever I could, based solely because of this UFO event.

371
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:42,000
But I was depressed to have to leave some such good friends, childhood friends, and my family.

372
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,000
That was the impact of my career, yes.

373
00:30:45,000 --> 00:31:04,000
I almost put it behind me because I didn't think we were going to ever be able to learn anymore.

374
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:10,000
But I did want vindication for this because there were jokes.

375
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,000
What I saw, this was a life altering event.

376
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,000
It's something you just don't forget.

377
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:23,000
How much brain space is occupied in 30 years?

378
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,000
It was enough to where I gave myself headaches thinking about it.

379
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:37,000
Literally headaches, trying to just really focus and try to figure it out because it's such a mystery.

380
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,000
I was just like, I'm going to get out of here.

381
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:08,000
Today, a highly anticipated report from the U.S. intelligence community zeroes in on unidentified aerial phenomenon, or UAPs, commonly known as UFOs.

382
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:14,000
This report had lots of input from the military. It was released by the office of the director of national intelligence.

383
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:23,000
They did find more than 140 reports dating back to 2004 where investigators could not find an explanation.

384
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:29,000
Pilots said they saw objects that moved at exceptional speed and agility.

385
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,000
My God, they're all going against the wind. The winds are 100.

386
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:40,000
We have people like Navy pilots, former CIA directors coming forward and saying, yeah, there are things that we don't really understand.

387
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:50,000
An incident in Puerto Rico where an object was tracked buzzing an airport, then flying into the water, popping back out before appearing to split into two and disappearing.

388
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:57,000
This is a technology that we don't completely understand, and it seems to be defying our understanding of physics.

389
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:02,000
The larger question is, is this alien life remains unanswered?

390
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:16,000
After all these years, it seems like the U.S. government and the military has finally taken UFO sightings more seriously, and that's made me reexamine my own UFO experience.

391
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:28,000
I've been dreaming about this for 27 years.

392
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:45,000
What I'm hoping to get out of the eyewitnesses is to get more information out of them and actually see exactly where they were so that I can tie together what I was seeing with the people on the ground,

393
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:57,000
with the radar. When you have both radar confirmation and ground-based eyeball confirmation, that's the proof that there was a tornado on the ground.

394
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,000
And so why not for UFOs?

395
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,000
Virginia?

396
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,000
Oh, Jack.

397
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,000
Jack, Michelle, nice to meet you.

398
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,000
For real, it's so nice to meet you.

399
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,000
I have so many questions and I know you have.

400
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:25,000
I knew of Virginia Tilley. She did a thorough job of finding these witnesses on the ground, but of course she didn't have a really good, detailed account of what I saw on the radar.

401
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,000
I know you've been investigating this the whole time.

402
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,000
Believe it or not, I tried to reach you.

403
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,000
Oh, you did?

404
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,000
I did. I tried actually several different times.

405
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,000
Really?

406
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,000
And I was always told you weren't available or you weren't allowed to speak to me.

407
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,000
No men in black, hey?

408
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,000
No men in black? Oh, two men in black.

409
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:43,000
None of those.

410
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:50,000
There are very few, if any, that have the kind of documentation that goes with this case.

411
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,000
This one I feel is much bigger than any of the others that I've investigated.

412
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,000
No kidding, the absolute top one?

413
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,000
I would think so.

414
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,000
Really?

415
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,000
There's a lot of gaps I'd like to see filled up.

416
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:10,000
I'm really interested in this couple you were talking about that had a vantage point from Lake Michigan around the time when I was seeing it on radar.

417
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:15,000
This was one of the most unusual things I've ever heard.

418
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,000
March 8th of 1994.

419
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:30,000
Young couple that were camping out that night, a nice cold night, right on the lake after midnight.

420
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,000
The wife woke up.

421
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:40,000
There was a tall tower of water.

422
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,000
They said it looked like a huge waterfall.

423
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:49,000
Went up almost as high as what looked like the heights of the sky.

424
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,000
At least 20 feet wide.

425
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:58,000
It was lit behind and from above.

426
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:02,000
And they're looking off towards the Chicago area, towards the southwest.

427
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:09,000
They both were so frightened they grabbed a couple of quick things that were laying with them and they ran up the stairs.

428
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:14,000
As fast as they could go.

429
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:22,000
So what you're telling me completely correlates with what I saw on radar from say 11 o'clock through well after midnight.

430
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,000
I was watching them til 2 in the morning on radar in the same place.

431
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,000
I have them at 6,000 feet at that point.

432
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,000
So it must have been a pretty tall waterfall then.

433
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,000
That's incredible.

434
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:41,000
A lot of these UFO events occur around great big bodies of water.

435
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,000
The Great Lakes seems to be a hot spot, fresh water here.

436
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,000
I've heard that so many times.

437
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:55,000
The Great Lakes is the largest freshwater area in the entire planet.

438
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,000
It's almost as if they were looking for open water and they found it right here.

439
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:05,000
And so there has to be a connection.

440
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:10,000
It always wanted to meet them.

441
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:15,000
You know, being the radar guy, he said, I saw what I saw.

442
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,000
So they see that we're not crazy.

443
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,000
You know, what we saw was real.

444
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:27,000
1994 sighting has affected me in a popularity kind of way.

445
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,000
A lot of the inquiries too are sincere.

446
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:36,000
But if the recording from the radar operator did not exist,

447
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,000
it would affect me differently, I believe.

448
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:44,000
It would be more adverse, probably, or more unbelievable to people.

449
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,000
We saw it out in the East Sky.

450
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:53,000
We could see, you know, the, I guess you would call it metallic.

451
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,000
You could see that.

452
00:37:55,000 --> 00:38:00,000
I saw something that I've never seen before.

453
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:06,000
The interesting thing to me about the two lights was one of them broke away from the other

454
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,000
at a noticeably high speed.

455
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:15,000
When I was seeing the objects between South Haven and Benton Harbor,

456
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:20,000
and yet the witnesses, the police officer, was in Holland,

457
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,000
they couldn't tell how far away or how high up.

458
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,000
I could, though.

459
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:29,000
I could see exactly how far away they were and how high up they were.

460
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,000
And it matched perfectly with what they were seeing.

461
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,000
Now I'm 100% sure we were seeing the same thing.

462
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,000
There's no doubt about it.

463
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:47,000
The strangest thing I saw that night was when I was using the beam of my radar to track the one object,

464
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,000
and then it split into several objects,

465
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:55,000
and they began to make triangles in different rotating patterns

466
00:38:55,000 --> 00:39:01,000
and also even rotating in the way that they were going from horizontal to vertical.

467
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:10,000
But the one thing that was very odd was each triangle was lined up perfectly down the beam of the radar.

468
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:15,000
If it was in any other position, I wouldn't have been able to see it all in one beam.

469
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:23,000
There was no way something could do that unless it knew, you know, where the radar was.

470
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:30,000
To get that, you have to be pretty intelligent.

471
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:35,000
It almost made me wonder, are they communicating, you know, this way?

472
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:50,000
I just keep having to say, what did I see that night?

473
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:57,000
What did I see going 72,000 miles per hour at least, you know, in a second?

474
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,000
What was it?

475
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,000
What do you think you saw that night?

476
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,000
It was a UFO.

477
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,000
I know that.

478
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:11,000
What do you think you saw that night?

479
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:20,000
It's a tough question to answer because you don't want to look like a kook, you know,

480
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,000
but I've checked off everything I could think of.

481
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:33,000
But it looked like an extreme technology that seems like it's hundreds of years advanced, more advanced than what we have.

482
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:42,000
Nobody can conclusively say these are any kind of extraterrestrial craft.

483
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:51,000
Now, on the other hand, I look up at the universe and I see the night sky.

484
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:58,000
And I have a feeling we're not alone in the vastness of this universe.

485
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:09,000
It's been almost 30 years and it's so gratifying to me that I was a piece of that evening.

486
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:14,000
When I look through here, it takes me back almost 30 years.

487
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,000
My children were small.

488
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,000
It's a UFO.

489
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,000
I'm glad my babies got to see it.

490
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:30,000
The two best things that ever happened in my life for my children.

491
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,000
And this night ranks right under that.

492
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:40,000
You know, it's even making me emotional here and I don't want to be emotional.

493
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:46,000
I hope everybody in the world can see what we saw that night.

494
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:53,000
When we get UFO reports in, it's understood that we're only getting a small portion of the group of people

495
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,000
who may have seen something.

496
00:41:55,000 --> 00:42:01,000
We've only received a very small amount of the stories that have happened that night.

497
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,000
There are a lot more.

498
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:08,000
And I would encourage people to tell their story.

499
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,000
This is a good time to do it. Why not?

500
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,000
It's time we talk about it.

501
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:28,000
I'm hoping that there's going to be some witnesses that will try to contact me and give me their story about that March 8, 1994 event.

502
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:34,000
Unless we finally figure out what this is and there's hard proof about it,

503
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:39,000
I am not going to give up this obsession of mine to try to figure it out.

504
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:44,000
I can see doing this the rest of my life.

505
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:46,000
I'm not going to give up this obsession of mine to try and find out what this is and how it's going to be.

506
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:52,000
I'm not going to give up this obsession of mine to try and find out what this is and how it's going to be.

507
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:58,000
I'm not going to give up this obsession of mine to try and find out what this is and how it's going to be.

508
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:03,000
I'm not going to give up this obsession of mine to try and find out what this is and how it's going to be.

509
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:08,000
I'm not going to give up this obsession of mine to try and find out what this is and how it's going to be.

510
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:43,000
I'm not going to give up this obsession of mine to try and find out what this is and how it's going to be.